Cultural Intelligence & Human Connection | Pamela Bevins-Pippin on Leadership, Empathy & STEM

In this powerful episode of Diversity Conversations, Eric Ellis and Tommie Lewis sit down with Pamela Bevins-Pippin, M.A., Director of STEM Education and Soft Skills for STEM at Hampton University, for a deeply human conversation about cultural intelligence, empathy, leadership, family, and connection.

Pamela shares how caring for her older brother with cerebral palsy shaped her understanding of dignity, communication, and humanity, while also exploring why cultural intelligence goes beyond “competency” and requires humility, awareness, listening, and emotional connection.

This episode explores:
• Cultural intelligence vs. cultural competency
• Leadership through empathy and human connection
• Family caregiving and identity
• Communication across cultures and communities
• Soft skills in STEM and leadership
• The importance of slowing down and truly listening
• Why authentic relationships matter now more than ever

A heartfelt and insightful conversation about what it means to truly see and honor one another in today’s world.

Diversity Conversations, Pamela Bevins-Pippin, cultural intelligence, leadership, empathy, STEM education, soft skills, DEI, inclusive leadership, emotional intelligence, communication skills, human connection, workplace culture, diversity equity inclusion, family caregiving, cultural competency, Hampton University, leadership podcast, Eric Ellis, Tommie Lewis

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Diversity Conversations, where we engage in thought-provoking dialogue to identify leadership solutions to today's most challenging conflicts. Stream live each week, Saturday, 9 30 a.m. to 11 a.m., hosted by Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Strategists and CEOs Eric Ellis and Tommy Lewis. Join us and add your voice to this engaging diversity conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Good morning, Greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, the United States, and the world. My name is Eric Ellison. I'm the president and CEO of Integrity Development Corporation. And I'm joined this morning by my good friend and my brother, Tommy Lewis, president and CEO of Make It Plain Consulting.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Good morning, Eric. Good morning, T. What's up, baby? Ain't nothing much, man. It's uh it's been a great and interesting morning. Yeah, already. But just as much as it's been as interesting this week for me as well. But how was your week? I'm gonna start with you.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Tommy, I had a good week, man. I had a chance to uh do some work with a client and uh, you know, and uh interact with people, man. It's it's an amazing thing to be in a classroom doing training. Uh Tommy, you know all the different kinds of people that we have in our training classes. And uh one of the things that I saw this week was that when there is a cloud over a classroom, then the the last thing you can do is try to burn through your agenda. Sometimes you've got to uh interrupt the agenda and you've got to deal with the elephant that is in the room. And uh so I had a chance to do that with a couple of people. And you know, I stopped at a table and I said, Hey, you know, what are we doing? And they looked at me uh and they said, Well, you know, checking a box. I said, Oh, I said, well, what does that mean? And then they talked about it, and we really took time and redirected the agenda to uh ask them to uh take out paper and identify the things that you would need to see to believe that your leaders are serious about this. And then uh what are uh what do you see that's going on today that's working well? Because if I'm going to represent you all and some of the concerns that you have, then strategically I can't just take up a laundry list of negative things. And they understood that. Uh and Tommy, after we got through that, man, uh the class flowed like nothing. It was, you know, easy like Sunday morning. Uh, but I just find that uh people are interesting, the times that we live in are interesting, and people just need to know you care. And uh that was uh one of the takeaways. Somebody went to HR and said, you know, I was I really enjoyed that class. You know, it could have just blown all the way up, but but the way the facilitator handled the people, people felt great and they got a chance to get some things off their chest. Uh, but then that uh opened them up to learn some skills because I ultimately challenge people that that for change to happen, it's not just a leadership change, but we as people need to change as well. And I said to them, I said, How many of you all are willing to look at yourself and make changes in the way that you communicate? I said, and if the answer is I'm not willing to do much, uh, then what right do you have to ask leaders to do anything? If everybody is just saying, I do my thing my way, well, you get what you get. Uh and uh and they agreed with that.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

So yeah, I would be curious, Eric, to know if if people in this situation or other situations actually change or has just the moment changed. Uh, I'm a proponent that uh individual change uh takes much longer once a person has been hardwired, hardwired in particular thinking, speech, or behavior. And so going to a training, getting coaching, having a a kind of singular event uh may disrupt the person's thinking or maybe behavior in the moment, but then they go back to what they're comfortable with because people lack discipline to sustain change. Right. And so I that's that's what came to my mind listening to this as far as totally correct device. I'm not really trying to change. I'm here going through the motions. I'm still gonna think and do the same thing in a year or two or three or four.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Right. And I I the research backs that up, there's something called the forgetting curve, number one, that says that when people go through training, that uh 60 minutes after uh the training session, 60% is gone. A week later, 80 to 90 percent is gone. That happens, the forgetting curve happens if training, if skills aren't repeated uh to a place that they become habits. And so the good news at this client is that we've been working, cultural change in organizations is a five to seven year process. And so we've been working with them for seven years, teaching a lot of the same skills. And so many people have picked up those skills as a result of that. And the research that we've done across the entire organization shows real cultural change over time. But I would say from individual to individual, this is something that has to be perpetual. You know, I was sharing with you that there's these five shared disciplines that organizations apply these organizational disciplines to the work. They hire people with expertise, they train them specifically how to do a job, they assess it, they monitor it and all like that. But rarely do they uh take the same level of detail, if you will, on the people side and the behavioral sides. And so that's the thing that we're working on is convincing organizations that you have to invest as much time in the detail and the organizational disciplines that are necessary for people. How do we talk to each other? How do we listen to each other? How do we seek out each other's perspectives? Uh, you know, and if we're not doing that, if we don't do things in an organized and disciplined manner, then we are doing things based upon chance. In other words, if we don't apply discipline, then it's chance. And I ask the questions do you want to leave leadership to chance? Do you want to leave problem solving simply to chance? Uh, whatever people grew up with, whatever they were born with, they bring to the workplace, and we get it or we don't. Uh, and they're beginning to slowly make the decision, Tommy, that it's probably not wise to make all these great investments on the task, the skills, the technical parts of the job, and do none of that on the people's eye.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Yeah, that makes plain sense, Eric. Appreciate you and the work that you and Integrity Development Corporation does with uh organizations like this, uh, and and also the organizations that have committed themselves to understand truly the uh growth cycle, you know, and the change cycle of uh cultural transformation. Thank you, Tommy. I appreciate that. How was your week, man? My week was great. There's a number of things happened, you know. Uh, in short, we've had a couple of RFPs out there, and uh, we were not accepted for either of those RFPs. They went uh with the incumbent, you know, the city of Pittsburgh, a couple of cities out in Colorado, a couple of cities down in in uh uh Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and then there's another city in Pennsylvania. Uh so we had we experienced about five or six losses, uh, all of which 100% were with incumbents, which has me rethinking our approach. So sometimes it's performative, where the uh the owner will have to go to an RFP by law, right, but they already have been working with their partner for six, seven, eight, ten years. And so we, when it goes public, we put our name in the hat and and we're losing, right? And so I uh uh am repositioning ourselves and listening to Eric Ruffin. I want to give a shout out to Eric Ruffin. Yeah, who I love a number of strategies per question. I had specifically asked him and some other panelists around how to re-engage uh potential customers where there is the strong incumbent, one or two, we've lost the opportunity. Another company's come in to perform those services, and how do we regain that partnership? And so we're we're pivoting. And what I did in closing this week, I picked up the phone, not an email, not a text, okay. Old school, old school. I picked up the phone and called folks. Okay, right, and then the next thing I'm gonna do is what Eric Ruffin recommended make a visit, just pay a visit and so that people see you. So that those visits, there's gonna be expenses to that. But uh I have always said, you know, give us at least an interview as we give others interviews. So even when we're not hiring, we listen to candidates, right? Right? We don't lie, embellish, right, right, stretch, stretch the truth, but we we listen, I see you, right? And I'm not just seeing the physical body, I'm not just hearing the words, I see you. Right? I can see if you have dollar bills in your eyes, that's not what we do. We don't chase money, we don't chase the bag or oh, you got some passion or you're purpose-driven. That's what I see in your eyes, right? And I can use it sometime. I can use it, right? Right, so that's that's what happened this week in all of the quote unquote losses, tremendous wins, tremendous wins. Because I'm not even talking about the the five clients that had stepped away from us four uh six years ago, good 2020. Four stepped up this week and said, Hey, you still in business? Of course. We're 30 years in, right? Right, 30 years in. That's how my week has been to take success and failure in the same vein.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I love that, Tommy. And I'll tell you what, I find this fascinating, uh powerful. Uh, thank you, Daron. We're so glad you joined us today, man. We love you as well. Uh, and uh I just want to uh make a shout out to you, Tommy, for your transparency. It's not uh oftentimes that people are willing to uh admit when loss or failure happens. But the reality is uh just like we say, don't go, uh don't try to play golf if you're not ready for uh ups and downs and wins and losses, because golf is going to be more bad shots sometimes than it is good shots. Uh, business is in many ways the same way. Nobody really talks about the defeats and losses, but there's no way to be in business without sustaining more rejection than people that are signing the bottom line. And so the fact that you're willing to not only share that, uh, but talk about the process of is that Thunder? Yeah, my goodness. The process of trying to understand where we may have fallen short. So I just really appreciate that, honor that about you, man. And I'm also grateful for all the doors that are opening as well. Indeed, we're just weathering storms.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We want to uh again always thank our community for showing up. I know we started a little bit late today, we're gonna blame it on technology, uh, and uh we keep it moving, but the conversations keep going. So even when we start five or 10 minutes after we're supposed to start, it's always in timing. So some folks say, you know, did you start at 9:30 basically, 10 o'clock, whatever the meeting is? So no, there are still conversations that could be had between human beings when technology fails. Stop saying it for me, Eric, because I don't always trust technology, right? Right, right. You and Lydia, you're working with me with chat, right? Uh-huh. You know, I just as a technical person, I I see the benefits and I see the downfalls. Yeah, the risk, right? From computers, cell phones, all that good stuff. And so when we have time in our lives as human to be quiet and have a personal conversation, let's take advantage of that. And so, with that, we want to continue our conversation and encourage you to like and subscribe. And thank you for every week that you join us. And this week, we're excited as you all continue to like and subscribe. Hey, Dan, Wendy, Vivis. Okay, all right. We got folks showing up, obviously, Daron, and I owe Duron a call back, man. But uh, no excuse. Gotta put time where you loved ones and things that you love. And I'm going with Duron and I'll follow up this week, Eric. We have a special guest, Pamela Vivens Pippin, right? Extraordinary principal, architect, and strategist, right, and cultural intelligence leader, right? Excuse me, cultural intelligence leadership, and what that looks like is, and she was she's gonna explain it, it may be a little bit different than what people may think of cultural transformation, right? Or simply cultural competence. We're talking about cultural intelligence, right? And so we'll bring it to the stage and we're gonna manage through some technology. Good morning, Pamela. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Good morning, Tommy, Eric, the audience. It's great to see everyone, and the names popping in. My sister is here, and girlfriends are here.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Wendy brought the family in, right? Absolutely, absolutely. Literally, our community is across the world, and we always welcome with our guests the extended family that becomes quickly the nuclear family. So, Wendy, uh, I know you'll make her proud with what you have to share today, but if you would for our audience, if you could start with kind of sharing a little bit more about yourself, your background, and uh maybe an event, a pivotal event, or a person that has influenced you to become who you are today.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

Well, that's a tall order, Tommy, but certainly doable. I am from Durham, North Carolina, where I currently live now. That's where I'm broadcasting from. My immediate career journey was to be an anchor woman. Uh, didn't quite work out that way. Uh, however, my career trajectory has shifted into uh uh going into health disparities, learning about the disparate health outcomes for people of color specifically in the United States and the world. That is what has informed my interest in cultural competency first. Learning that cultural competency is never attainable. That's why I shifted to cultural intelligence, which teaches us that we have to be aware, uh, pay attention to, embrace people from different communities from all over the world. Uh we all have different cultural nuances, norms, the way we speak, the food we eat, which can be um very interesting because in a work environment, a lot of people from Asia are very uncomfortable with the food that they eat because they have, you know, the beautiful odors from the, not odors, but the beautiful smells from the spices they use, that can create a very psychologically unsafe environment. So that's where my work has taken me into cultural intelligence. Instead of turning up your nose to ask questions, talk to people, listen to your colleagues. We work with people from all over the world, and we have to learn how to embrace, understand, be aware, and evolve in our own cultural understanding and intelligence. That's what I work with a lot of groups on, with the state, uh, with private organizations here in East Search Triangle Park, universities, and what have you. So that's what brings me to where I am today.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Well, uh, we we also love to start, our community is funny. They love to know who it is uh that's a guest on our podcast. I mean, they pretty much own the podcast. Tommy and I are just uh co-host. Good. I really love it when they can hear even some things about your family, uh, your parents, uh your siblings, how you grew up. What are what are the things, the messages that that sort of grounded you and helped to establish your core values? And what are some of those values?

SPEAKER_04 18:05

Well, those values from my parents, uh, their friends, uh, my community is one of allowing other people dignity, listen to everyone. My older brother uh is terrible palsy, so we have had to adjust all through our lives, whether we knew it or not, to be able to communicate with him. He's nonverbal and cannot hear. So he looks at us and he understands from our face, our smiles. Of course, that didn't resonate with me until I was much older and understood all this cultural difference. But having to understand how he's communicating is also by watching my face and my mouth. And my parents used to get on me about, you know, don't tear up your face. You know, your brother is looking at you and he's understanding how you're communicating with him through that. My sister and I have become much closer because we've had to take care of our older brother. So our family dynamics really um evolved into understanding our parents gave us what we needed to be in this life without them. To also take care of him. He's 70 now. Uh most people with cerebral palsy do not live that long. Uh, he has been nurtured and loved in our community, our church, all of our friends and family as we've grown over the years. So they they've given us a sense of understanding. Um empathy is huge. Empathy is huge. That's one thing I learned working in healthcare. If you cannot put yourself in someone else's shoes or have that understanding, how can you treat patients and how can you work with colleagues from wherever they've come from? So I grew up in a warm family and community, and I'm very thankful for that because it's carried me through my career and my life.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

And how about uh and thank you for sharing this about your brother? Yes. Uh and you're you're right that uh those who um have have this condition may not typically do not last you know several years, but to be 70 years old, yes, I think is a testament to a number of things. I think one is the testament of God that He has a plan for each and every one of us that's beyond science. So his life is a testimony of God's power versus technology versus all kinds of things, right? Second, the power of the love of family, it's what we live for, most of us, right? Right, it's what we live for, and so with your parents guiding you and your sister Wendy to you know try to understand this, but we may be young and not not really focused, and then now you and your sister Wendy are coming together even stronger to care for your brother, I think to support one another, right? And to be again a testimony for others who are experiencing something similar or are now saying, let me take a look at my own life, my own health, and what does life look like? Right. So many of us are we we take our health and our life for granted until we can. That takes intelligence, it takes cultural intelligence to be aware of self, right, first, and to have empathy, compassion, passion, and the willingness and readiness to serve others. Pamela, thank you for who you are and these experiences that continue to make you who you are. Thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Thank you, Tommy. Right. And so uh I imagine if we can just stay here for just a minute, that uh there is uh there's the blessing of uh having to live in a family where someone has special need. Uh there it's it's in many ways a gift for us to be able to slow down and to be able to serve and to be able to experience love from someone else who's in a different situation. But uh there's also quite a challenge that goes with that as well. Can you share something about uh and this is to the level of that you're comfortable sharing, uh, about the balancing act that exists between uh recognizing that this uh is a blessing uh and sometimes feels like a burden. How have you navigated that uh across your life?

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Well, Eric, it is a blessing. And you know, I of course didn't realize that till I was much older. Go out in public as children. Um my sister is six years younger than me. We would go out in public and people would stare at our brother and you know, they would, I'm sure, made comments. For example, my father would never took us to the state fair here in Raleigh, North Carolina, because he didn't want to have any challenges with other humans looking at him a certain way and judging our brother. So I've never been to the fair here in Raleigh, North Carolina. I have no interest in going now. But his way of protecting us was to keep, you know, us contained in the family, although we have a huge community of people. My mother was a fourth grade teacher. My father worked at the Veterans Administration Hospital. So everybody knew us, so we felt safe in our city and surrounding cities because everybody knew Billy. Our brother's name, that's our brother's name. He would walk around our community when he came. He made his own community and people know him now, even still. They don't ask me about me, they ask me about how's Billy or even with Wendy. Aren't you Wendy's sister? So it's kind of like I blended in as the middle child without my own identity. And it's interesting to even navigate that that now that I'm in the sixth decade of my existence. But now it's it's really a balancing act of accepting that they have made such an impact that everyone sees me and they always think of them, which is fine because our parents were very warm and they took care of other people, and that has resonated over our lives. People still remember our father, and he's been gone a very long time. But he gave our brother Billy what he needed to still be here and thrive. He is still thriving. So the balancing act is accepting that he was never an embarrassment that people attempted to make him appear to be because he was different. Okay. And me maturing and evolving into my own understanding of what his existence in my life has given me, which is a lot of the cultural intelligence as well. The cultural understanding, which is why I said we never reach cultural competence until we, I guess, leave this earth and we never need it anymore. But that's the balancing act. And I appreciate him so much more now because he's taught me so much about myself. We look just alike, so that's something I never noticed before. We look just alike. So it's it's it's balancing, understanding myself, know thyself.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Right. Okay. I want to take one more shot at it, too. Sure. First of all, I I I love that your sister's here. Thank you, Wendy. We love you. We had mentioned what we love you already. Uh, but I would say to you, Pamela, we don't know uh your sister or your brother, we do know you, and we want to thank you for who you are and the gifts that exist within you. Um I I'm hearing what you've said about people will see you and then they'll ask about your brother, they'll ask about your sister. Uh that's not always a comfortable uh thing to deal with. Uh where have you uh been able to find your own identity and community? How have you navigated that? Because I love the fact that you sort of uh uh you know just kind of you know ignore, you focus in on the positives of it, but there's probably been some challenges around that as well. And where are the spaces that you've been able to thrive and uh have your own identity?

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Well, Eric, I thrive in the work that I do. Um when I teach classes and workshops and talk to leaders, students, uh administrators, what have you, I get to show who I am uh based on what they have enhanced within me. So I definitely have my own identity, I assure you. I love to travel internationally by uh, you know, learning and evolving within myself to be able to share even more to the audiences that I have, you know, the opportunity, the unique in front of. So I'm very grounded in Pam, I assure you. Uh even being married, I definitely have my own identity. Um my husband is somebody I actually grew up with. I moved all around the world, all around the US and traveled the world, and he was right there all the time. So, you know, you you just get to know yourself as you traverse the world and meet other people. And my mother always taught me to emulate the good in people. You know, as a teacher, she was always giving lessons. Um I'm thankful she did. I grew tired of them uh when I was younger, but now I appreciate her voice in my head and heart telling me that, you know, you move through the world as a as a person that exhibits where you've come from. And that's where my values live, despite how I'm treated, right? Despite, you know, people looking at me as oh, you do that DEI work. Yes, I do, because humans will always walk the face of this earth as long as we're allowed to be here. And we need to honor, respect, and give grace to one another. That will never change. AI will not change that. But we have to be mindful that who you show yourself to be is who you reflect your family to be. And I refuse to dishonor my family and the legacy that I'm able to leave by being and sometimes we have to stop and breathe and slow down, but I definitely have my own identity and work in my own space.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

So I love that. I got pitch, and uh I love that your team is weighing in. You see how they're weighing in, right? I mean, your whole community is I want you, uh Lydia, to bring up her sister's comment uh that uh she has become the uh the mother of us both, and uh I love that comment. Uh to our community, I want to speak to our community for just a second, and I want to say to the community that you are witnessing here a wonderful balance within a family. What you're sharing, Pamela, this morning is the challenges and the realities that exist in families, where each of us have different roles, each of us have different needs, each of us have different requirements, and you are showing us a balance of uh sometimes people asking you about your siblings, uh, sometimes them having different needs, uh, but you being able to find your own voice, your own journey, your own uh pathway. Uh, and then your sister has beautifully weighed in with a cosign that says that, and these are the flowers that we get today. Pamela has become the mother of us both. And I just think that that's so awesome. And community, I want to say to you out there that if you have the gift, the opportunity to be a part of a loving family, you have to look at that role that God has given you as a gift. And you are expressing today the wonderful balance between that. And without going heavily into the negatives, you said to us, Pamela, that I see more clearly now at this age than I may have seen. So, so community, wherever you are in your journey, understand that if you just keep looking, if you keep watching, that you'll get to a place where you can see more clearly. And then there'll be other people in your family that will give you your flowers by celebrating. I mean, the the notion of being a mother to your siblings is a powerful thing, and it says a lot. I don't know if you can get any greater award than that one. You know, whatever organizations might recognize your work, there's no better recognition on the earth that we can get than from those that are closest to us, that see us, that experience us, that follow us, even right now, today. So just kudos to you for who you've been as a human being before anything else that you've done in your work.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Thank you so much, Eric. That's beautiful. Thank you, Wendy. Thank you, Ava. I see Ava in here.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

I have a I have a I guess a simple question as uh you know, Team Genius Squad, Ava, right, you know, showing up. What is in the water in North Carolina that these women are so beautiful? Right. I'm really trying to figure out Pamela, outstanding, women jumped in for her right, right. I love it. And that's just what I do know. Uh, although I make I'm I'm I'm jokingly serious about that. Uh, my youngest son is is uh going to school in North Carolina down in Greensboro, North Carolina and T University. And uh and someone did someone go to Hampton University?

SPEAKER_04 32:39

Oh, yes. My sister and I attended Hampton.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

What you know good? What's you know good? I saw something in the backdrop. I said, let me make note of that. I see I already have this beautiful campus, beautiful campusing folks like Pamela Vivens Pippen. Again, for those who are just joining us, having a great conversation, cultural intelligence leadership. It's her daily week. But she just framed up her why and the background around the why. I would also, before I go to my question, is again give a shout out uh to all the service providers, the direct care providers who care for folks like Billy. Uh, I work with a number of organizations in Circle that's in West Virginia, Virginia. I work with a couple of companies in Ohio where we are and throughout the country. Uh, and these are very, I think, Eric, very special people who um many times express and articulate the patience of care is something I don't always have. Exactly. I'm a rush, rush, rush, rush person, and and like when Pamela said, sometimes we have to slow down, right? Slow down, slow down our thinking, slow down our energy, slow down our our our our speech, and slow down our rush to judgment, right? Right, and if I were to say anything, that I would like that people hopefully today are more accepting of difference, such that an adult man will not take his children to the fair because of how other people might react to something that is natural. God created us perfectly right in his image, right? And our imperfections. So we're looking at another person, we pass quick judgment. Oh, what's going on? That's our own ignorance, right? Right, and this is why we need folks like Pamela Vivens Pippen to help us become more intelligent, our cultural understanding, competence, leadership. Uh, I just want to I was just moved to the case. I love it, I love that, Tommy.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Come on now, I love that. That's real talk there, because we live in a plastic world too often, and uh people are making quick judgments of others. Daron Hunter was a guest on our podcast and shared a powerful story himself about uh experiencing some cruelty directly. So at times we live in a cruel world, and your work is helping to uh unlock uh insight, information so that people might be able to develop more meaningful relationships. Tommy, you had a question.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah, so my question is we can toggle back and forth with this conversation. What is cultural intelligence?

SPEAKER_04 35:59

Tommy and Eric and audience, it is a matter of being able to shift and pivot once you are aware of the cultural nuances, differences of the people around you. Your global teams, even within your family, if your family marriage family member marries someone from another culture, even another part of the United States, a different region where they speak differently, the community is different. We need to be culturally humble enough to have cultural humility to be able to learn and listen from other people. What you've learned from your family, your community, maybe your religious affiliation is one thing which creates your bias. But once you begin to open up, understand and listen and actually hear what people are saying to you, you get to grow and evolve even within yourself as you get to learn more about that person that you're working with or living with. That's what cultural intelligence is, having the cultural humility to be open to listen, be aware, and then to know again, know yourself even more fully by understanding the people around you and how you have to uh pivot and shift in how you manage, how you communicate, the words you say, uh the body language you do not exhibit because it could be offensive in another culture, even though it's normalized in Western culture. We have to be educated on that because those communication faux pas can totally destroy business opportunities, disrupt families, just communication overall first, and then the intelligence to communicate culturally is is just critical. It's critical.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

So I I would agree, and Eric, you have a question, I'm I'm certain that one thing I had learned personally is that uh I was born and raised in Ohio. Uh I went to school in Tennessee, Tennessee State University. Um and then, as I mentioned, my son, youngest son, is down in North Carolina, and when I would take him down to North Carolina, uh there was a cultural nuance that I was less familiar with. In Ohio, Southwest Ohio, Cincinnati area, we have a culture at times of not really speaking to one another.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

We stare, we're starers.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

So when people say good morning, we don't always respond with good morning. We just look. We do oh that's the Cincinnati Way, man. Right. We just mean mugging who are you talking to? And it's so normalized with me. I break the norm and I'm like, Good morning, good morning, right? And folks look back, like, what are you what are you doing? Right? Go down to North Carolina, it's the norm. Folks are saying good morning, yes, not just as a as a salute to you, but to wish you a good morning. They want to have some dialogue, and then I learned that now we're having a conversation. Hey, are you from these parts? No, I'm from Ohio. Then now we're talking, and in the back of my mind, you don't know me, right? And they're saying, I I'm not trying, I don't know you. I want to bridge this gap, I want to be communal, I want to be a neighbor, and that these instances are foreign to me. Right, I literally put on airs, good morning, I really, really care about you. But my Cincinnati bred, Ohio truudeness, you know, Midwestern bruteness comes out, and I miss the historical biography of our ancestors coming to North Carolina and what we had to do to form our community against all odds. It still lives in the parallel biven's pit, right? In the women, right? And in the nieces and nephews, it still lives there, right? And if we're not culturally intelligent, we may take offense to that difference. What I've learned is I lean into it, right? Let me let me go back home, right? Let me go back home. If it's not North Carolina, it's Georgia, not Georgia is down in uh Mississippi, it's not Mississippi, it's on the ivory coast. If it's not in the ivory coast, it's in the whatever. And so my my ask of you, Pamela, is to continue to do and be who you are, right? Where may be for room, right? Or on the bricks, right? But to continue to do uh, yeah, I'll stop there.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

So let me just say this. Pamela, you are blowing up the chat. I mean, you literally are blowing it up. And I'm gonna ask Lydia to start by bringing up the comment about I was new to North Carolina. Let's start by bringing that up, and then I want you to sort of just uh go through a couple of them because Pamela, I'd like you to to react to some of the things that people are saying. Uh you know, so let's let's go to the one from North Carolina that says I'm new to North Carolina. Okay. There it is. Uh I'm new to North Carolina. Uh Pamela embraced me right away with her Southern hospitality. I'm thrilled to have met her. And so uh so I I pull this one up because it is evidence. Sometimes there's evidence that you know that these are your references that what you do, what you do professionally is not simply done within organizations, but it's who you are as a person. Uh, bring up a couple of the other comments that have made have been made, and then Pamela, we're gonna give you an opportunity to just react to the things that your your uh community, your uh team, uh team Pamela is saying. Okay. Next one.

SPEAKER_04 42:22

Well, yes, I am um uh Helen Higginbotham and I have known each other for some years via her podcast, When Black Women Gather. Uh, she is Miss Higgy on the on the platform here. Uh has moved from, she's from New Jersey, moved from Florida to North Carolina, I guess back in October. And we've been hanging out, trying to help her um, you know, find the new community here that she's trying to engage with and make a difference in. So we've had a great time. Again, that's Helen Higginbotham Esquire. And uh Ava is a young lady who is into science, so she is team strategists. Uh she is a um STEM princess. So, yes, Ava and her mom, who is my sorority of Sigma Gamma Rose Sorority Incorporated. Uh, we are sorrows, and I've gotten to know she, she and her daughter through that, and my sister as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Well, this is powerful, and I would say that um we certainly want to talk a little bit more about what you do, but I think that the power of who you are is what we're experiencing. Uh, you are letting us all know how important it is we are robbed when we don't get a chance to know each other and spend time together. And I would say that Tommy and I have been blessed to have uh some great guests join us. But every time we have a great guest join us, we feel like we've extended our family and that we need a family reunion. So we've got to figure out how to make Sure, that we are all staying connected so that the goodwill that exists inside of us and inside of the relationships connected to us, that we'll be able to keep those going so that we're not so overwhelmed by the negative messaging that's happening all around.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

Right. Well, community is critical. We are connected. I know the pandemic, the COVID-19 pandemic showed us how connected we are, but somehow we have forgotten that what happens in one part of the world will impact the other. In our communities, we are we are very connected, whether we recognize it or not, and getting to know each other is a huge value because we all have the capability to enhance each other, to help each other, to get each other through the difficult moments and to celebrate with the the wondrous moments that we all hopefully get to uh express in this life because it is challenging right now. A lot of people are struggling and suffering. This is showing its ugly head now for a lot of people who never dealt with that. Um, families are breaking up over varying uh issues in our global and national ecosystem. So we have to really focus on being connected and honoring each other and talking with each other and getting away from arguing and those um one-fifth of a second looks that we give each other. We have to evolve beyond that into a really strong and embracing humanity, which is what cultural intelligence also allows us to do once we take the time to talk with one another.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Yeah, I want to say one other thing, and I'm gonna throw it back to Tommy, and we're coming to the end. Oh but I was uh on social media here, and I I've been posting a lot of things each week, and uh every one of them is something encouraging, positive. And then somebody weighed in on my site and said, uh, Eric, we uh we have to not only pray, we have to fight and pray. And then and he went on to say something like, We miss you. Uh oh no, we need you in the fight. And I had to really bring to because the person was almost saying, Why are you being so positive when the world right now is so negative? And I'll tell you that uh uh that gave me a huge concern because when I have God on my side, God said, I'll fight for you and you should remain in peace.

unknown 46:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

And I find that uh what you're saying here this morning, what you're demonstrating is the power that love can have to draw people, to connect people. Uh, I wonder if you might say a word about that because uh I'm just seeing that some people have become so bitter that they feel like the only way that we can respond is with anger that matches what we uh might feel as though we're experiencing.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Well, you mentioned the power of God, Eric. That is first and foremost, that's the beginning and the end. We will fall into our negative, dark spaces. That is human, that's how we were created. We can't help that. But we have to have a circle of family in us, people who will talk you through it. I have gained so many girlfriends and and people around me, and including my male friends as well. You can talk and someone listens. A lot of people don't have anyone to talk to. So their anger and their rage and their discontentment gets bottled up and the venom comes out. Whereas if you take the time to really um be human. That's all we know how to be first is be human, share, don't be embarrassed or ashamed because a lot of us are feeling so much that we're not sharing with others. I have people I can be very authentic with and very honest and very down-to-earth, and be just nitty-gritty pam. Right. And not always be the poised, quaft, southern quote unquote bell some people want to try to put on me. We have to be authentic and honest today because we have to survive this so we can move past it and continue to live and thrive. So we have to talk to each other. We have to let all of it out and talk and trust and honor that people will respect and still love us despite that. I do have those blessings, and and I know a lot of people don't. Seriously and sincerely don't. We need that. We need God, whatever God you believe in, there's always a higher power because we are not the end all be all. And a lot of people don't know how to accept that. We need help, we need each other. Absolutely. That's that's where this work comes from.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

So, in the vein of needing each other, I want to go back because I know we're wrapping up the show here briefly, but I was inspired as well. Uh, you were talking about when black women gather. Uh uh many years ago, Eric Ellett uh created a community of friends, brought together folks who uh they're business-minded, business-oriented folks, but we had discussions that pertain to our own challenges and struggles, concerns in an environment that we can trust. And as we were articulating our concerns, we heard that other people uh in that community of friends had the same concerns. Others had some advice. Yeah, I had the same concern five years ago. I got this nugget, this gem of wisdom. I'm gonna transfer that wisdom.

SPEAKER_04 50:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

It was a great community, right? And there were a number of folks probably outside of the room looking through the glass. So now I'm that black man on the outside of the room looking into when black women gather.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

I want to come in right now because I have I have sisters, right? And uh sometimes I can be part of the conversation, sometimes they give me a look and I have to dismount. Yes, yes. Now I want to know, Pamela, what's what's one or two or three things that men should know that we're not getting the memo. That's a whole nother show. Okay, we're not getting a memo, right? Right. And if we were if we were in that gathering, right, we would have to be culturally humble to shut up and listen, right? But I'm on the outside, Eric and I are on the outside. There is one thing that you can offer up to the knuckleheads, right? Might bring back your whole team, indeed. Right. What would that one be?

SPEAKER_04 51:18

Well, Tommy, we do welcome men into when black women gather. We have guests who are male, we have male participants. They are welcomed, they are they are invited warmly to speak up, to share. Um, we are not exclusive because if we don't have the brothers with us, we can't, we just simply cannot hold womanist theory talks about the fact that wet black women care about their families, it's not just about themselves, right? We are focused on our families and holding our men up, our families up. That's what we want the brothers to know, and that is genuine.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Excellent. Well, I tell you that uh yeah, we're gonna have to bring you back. It it feels like, and we got cheated right out of the gate, so you got some time uh that we gotta restore back to you on our next visit. But uh, I want to thank you, uh Pamela, for who you are, number one. Uh, who you've been to the people around you that has been celebrated uh this morning, uh, to uh Pamela's community and to our broader global community. We want to say we appreciate you all deeply. We're trying to uh say things that matter here. There's so much foolishness happening in the world that Tommy Lewis and Eric Ellis have decided that we want to engage people in wonderful, enthusiastic, enlightened diversity conversations. And so we're gonna say to you all that take care of each other, love each other, love yourselves, and then join us next week for another installment of Diversity Conversations. Take care, take care.

SPEAKER_04 53:01

Thank you so much, gentlemen.