How Newcomers Build Stronger Communities | Amma Gatty on Culture, Belonging & Connection

In this episode of Diversity Conversations, Eric Ellis and Tommie Lewis welcome Amma Gatty, Founder and Executive Director of Culture Encounters, for an inspiring conversation about culture, belonging, immigration, community building, and the power of human connection.

Originally from Ghana and now based in Richmond, Virginia, Amma shares her personal journey as a newcomer to the United States and how that experience inspired her mission to build bridges across cultures through food, conversation, the arts, and community engagement.

Together, they explore:

• Why "newcomer" may be a more helpful and humanizing term than "immigrant"

• The difference between integration and assimilation

• How food, storytelling, and dialogue create connection

• Building belonging across cultural differences

• What communities can learn from global perspectives

• The role of hospitality, curiosity, and leadership in creating inclusive spaces

• How culture shapes the way we see ourselves and others

This thoughtful conversation offers practical insights for leaders, community builders, educators, and anyone interested in creating stronger human connections across differences.

Learn more about Culture Encounters: cultureencounters.org

Amma Gatty, Culture Encounters, Belonging, Community Building, Human Connection, Leadership, Diversity Conversations, Immigration, Newcomers, Cultural Competency, Intercultural Communication, Inclusion, Diversity, Richmond Virginia, Ghana, African Leadership, Hospitality, Cultural Bridge Building, Cultural Intelligence, DEI, Dialogue, Conversation, Global Perspectives, Community Engagement, Social Impact

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Diversity Conversations, where we engage in thought-provoking dialogue to identify leadership solutions to today's most challenging conflicts. Stream live each week, Saturday, 9 30 a.m. to 11 a.m., hosted by Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Strategists and CEOs Eric Ellis and Tommy Lewis. Join us and add your voice to this engaging diversity conversation.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Good morning, Greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, the United States, and the world. My name is Eric Ellison. I'm the president and CEO of Integrity Development Corporation. And I'm joined this morning by my good friend and my brother, Tommy Lewis, president and CEO of Make It Plane Consulting.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Good morning, Eric. Good morning, T. What's up, baby? Oh, it's great morning, man. It's a beautiful, beautiful morning. Yes, it is. Southwest Ohio, northern Kentucky. And I'm certain across the world, even if the weather is inclement, I hope that our people uh have good, warm, and spirited hearts.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Absolutely, Tommy. Man, I'm so excited about the conversation as I am always. How was your week, my friend?

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Week was great, Eric. Uh uh on the business side, and then I'll speak a little bit on the personal side. Business-wise, we were uh very blessed and happy to uh re reunite with a former client after about three or four years. We had worked with the client for 10 years, okay, and then uh uh COVID hit 2020, a couple other uh uh budgetary constraints, and uh we kind of sunset some operations in 2023, 24. Uh but as I mentioned to my team, as well as our clients, we always like to stay in the picture frame. I like that, right? So we don't always have to be the focus point in the photo, right? But we're the person on the side looking in, and every photo is like, who's that in the back? Right. So that's Tommy. Right. So then he's Tommy, please come to the front. So our client said, Come to the front, and the best news is that we're doing implementation, we're working on cultural transformation, we've done assessments, there's been a number of trainings, some coaching, but now we're looking to implement some of the strategies that will be sustainable even when people are retiring, moving on, or new employees. So we're just trying to make it uh take about a three-year, four-year process here to embed the new cultural norms of excellence in the area, and not mediocrity, not uh anything else. Personally, uh, I'm looking forward to this evening. We're having a few uh good friends and family members over to the house as we typically do. Excellent. And we just fellowship, have a lot of laughs, food, music. We love music, right? And uh uh we'll do that, and it's just a chill out evening on the deck, right? You know, we have the pergola, we have the hammock and all that good stuff, we have a fire pit. So we'll just be out there relaxing and uh just hanging out. I'm looking forward to not being able to think a lot, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:17

Or just to sit back and listen. Right. Tommy, I love that about uh you and Penny, the way that you all use your home as a welcoming, safe place for people to visit. It reminds me of a generation gone by because when I was young, it seemed like families did that a lot more. And then we sort of got so independent, you know, uh that people just do their own thing and they almost never see each other. And I've uh been over your house at one of those kind of events, man, where you all just hosted and people feel special, like they were going to the king's, you know, uh mansion for uh, you know, for celebration. I mean, it really feels beautiful to be a part of that. The conversation is all always wonderful. You all curate the couples in the group so that it's a nice meshing between all the personalities. And I just think that that's you know, kudos to you all for that. Congratulations on uh the business. You know, when you do good work, then even if people walk away, they're not walking away because you failed them.

unknown 4:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Uh they're walking away because either times have changed, budgets have changed, you know, the culture has changed. And so when you do a good job, they're always looking for that opportunity to bring you back. And that's good news, man. And uh I'm in a couple of those conversations right now. I'm gonna talk to you more about it after uh after the show. Uh, but this week I also had a chance to uh do some continuing work that we're doing with our uh clients around uh team excellence. And so I mentioned to you that uh for most of my career, you know, training has happened, the C-suite and mid-level managers and employees, and I really felt strongly that you had to bring sort of training and development into the work team, so those in-tech teams. And so I had a chance to really work with uh uh a couple of teams around uh they did a pre-assessment around their issues, and then using those five essential skills to really have conversation around difficult challenges and issues. We also have that uh uh structured problem-solving model that says you have to define the issue and then explore what are some of the reasons behind that, and then put together an action plan. So it's working, and to see people, uh people are used to talking, but they're not used to communicating. Indeed. So everybody's got their mouth going. Yes, sir. Uh, I'm saying something, you're saying something. We're saying because we're in training, we're saying it nicely. Yes. Well, saying stuff nicely doesn't mean that we communicate it.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

And so really slowing people down, and what I what I've taught them is that these three practice steps for utilizing skills, you have to start with a cue. So, what's happening in your mind that cues that there's a need for a tool? Uh, am I making an assumption in my brain? Uh, is there somebody around the table that hasn't said anything? Uh I I shared a perspective, you shared a perspective. I don't know if they so let me do a perspective switching. So let me sort of tell you where I am, but then let me switch and see if I can say that perspective from your standpoint. And then looking at psychological safety, what else might we be missing? And so slowing people down and conversation down so that people might be able to understand not just that we're talking to each other, but what else is either being said or not said, and what is preventing us from having the right conversation.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

Eric, this is phenomenal because one word that came to mind as you were sharing was skill set. There's a skill set in doing this. I remember when I was in engineering school, uh, and we used to talk about those other students in med school. And and we in engineering would say we're problem solvers. The fundamental principle of engineering is solving problems. And so we used to poke fun at the medical students, right? Right. And they would say, Okay, you all so smart over there in the College of Engineering. Right. He said, uh, no matter how many times you go to the hospital doesn't mean you know how to operate on someone. It's a skill set, right? So you can live life, right, but doesn't know it doesn't determine that you do it well, that you're a master or that you're excellent in it. Right. So that's what I heard. Uh, and I would like to encourage us, Eric, our community, that uh to really lean into continuous improvement. Regardless of your age and your season, even your experience, can you learn something else? Because for 50, 60, 70 years old, I've been communicating. No, you've been talking. Right. Right? You've been that's what you've been doing. Right, right. And in fact, you've been talking so much, look at an audience, no one's there. Right. Everybody's walked away. You've been talking to yourself, right? Right. So the skill set is you know, am I talking with folks? Are they talking with me? Are we communicating? And part of communication is understanding what's being shared.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

Absolutely. And to see people sit down and talk about real issues, not role plays, is really a powerful thing as well, man, just to see them really engage in that. And what I've uh I've I've uh established a couple of roles, uh, sort of a uh team captain role that uh sort of calls me uh once a week and does a check-in. How's it going? We've gamified it so that people are tracking the utilization of skills uh over a two-week period, uh, and they're getting prizes for utilizing them as often as possible. They can use the skills within the problem-solving uh model itself. They could use it just in the workplace, they can use it at home. Wherever they're using skills, chalk up. Uh, I'm I told them, look, you know, run the score up because we want people to make these skills habits. And since we don't have as much time, you have to really make it fun for them and encourage them. And they're beginning to see the value of having a conversation that's just not talking. So I'm grateful to see that.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

We always want to welcome our community. They're showing up again every Saturday morning. For some, it's the morning, others afternoon, others, it's late evening. Thank you for showing up. We always want to encourage our community to like and subscribe. We want to pop up when you're uh uh not even thinking of us to say, hey, why don't you join the conversation? We have a guest today, Eric, and you can bring our illustrious guest to the stage.

SPEAKER_05 10:10

Hello, hello, hello.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Good morning, good morning. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

I am doing well. How are you both?

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Outstanding, doing great. We have Amagadti, who's the founder and executive director of Culture Encounters. Uh, and as we do, it's it's a pleasure to have you this morning. Uh, beautiful. Your background looks beautiful. In fact, if we can, where are you joining us from on this day?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yes, I am joining from the beautiful Richmond, Virginia. It's a small town, but we love small town. It's partly cloudy, so hopefully no rain today. So, yes. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Well, again, thank you for joining us. Diversity conversations. We have our community that will share their thoughts, insights, their react to what the conversation and where the conversation goes. We always enjoy and love our community. But to ensure that our community knows who you are, can you talk through a little bit about you know a couple of experiences and or people that have influenced you over the years to get you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Oh my goodness, that's a good question. Um, well, let me start that by telling you all a little bit about where I'm from, um, because I'm sure people are curious about my accent and all of that. Uh, but I am originally from Ghana in West Africa. Now, if you all have never been to Ghana, please go to Ghana. Go to Ghana, especially if you're a person of color. It's a place that grounds you, it's home. Um, but I was born and raised in Ghana, migrated to the United States in 2001, right before 9-11. So my exposure to the United States was, you know, the tragedy that happened to this country. And um, in that moment I thought, okay, is this the American dream or the American nightmare? But I'm glad that I stayed and I've stayed all these years, and now Richmond, Virginia is my home. Now, if you ask who has influenced me, I would say my mother. Um, my mother is that person. Um, a little bit of my mother, she had me when she was in college, in her senior year in college, and fast forward went through that. Um, raised us mostly as a single mother. My brother and I went into the nonprofit world, and I think that's where the influence comes from, and then eventually ended up in politics. And um, she passed away um on three months after her 70th birthday, um, two years ago on Christmas Day. So I got a call on Christmas morning with my mother gone. But over the last year since she's passed, it's allowed me to take stock of my life and how I've gotten here and all the things that she's done over the years that has influenced me. She is an unassuming woman, you know. Um, people say I look like her, um, but her personality is more I'm gonna be in the background, I'm gonna do my thing, and someone is gonna take notice at some point. And I think I've inherited a bit of that. So if anyone has influenced me or been an inspiration, I would love to honor my mother this morning. It's her.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah, we we honor your mother as well. Uh we'll keep the conversation obviously going, uh you know, fluid. But when I was listening to you share about your mother, uh, for whatever reason, leadership came to my mind. And uh, you know, there are multiple ways that we can lead, we can lead from up front, yeah. You know, followers follow me, we can lead from the middle, right? Sometimes and oftentimes we can lead from behind, yes, such that no one is left behind. And I heard in you describing your mother as the one literally, I can envision her arms open, making sure no one falls through the cracks. I'm not going to take the quote unquote leadership role, but I'm the leader of all as powerful. Yes. You're the fruit that the tree has bare.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Absolutely. Yeah. Profound words. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

What do you miss most about Ghana? And uh what could this country learn from that country?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Oh my goodness, that's an amazing question. Um I miss the weather, you know. I live in Virginia, and so in Richmond in particular, is bipolar when it comes to weather. We can be cold and 19 degrees in the morning, and by dinner time it's 70 degrees. I mean, that's that's Richmond for you, and Virginia in general. So I miss the weather, the consistency of weather. I tell people, I think the coldest I ever experienced would be close to like 68, 67 degrees, and then it goes all the way up to like 90 something. But then you have the ocean breeze that comes through, and so it cools things down. Once you have shade, you're pretty good. Um, so I miss that. I miss that about Ghana. The weather, the people are warm. Um, we don't take each other seriously. You know, everything is almost like a big joke and kind of annoys me now that I've become more westernized. Um, but it's the laid-back approach to life. You know, when someone says, I'm gonna be there at two o'clock, they mean I'm gonna be there at 6 p.m., you know, and they gather when theygether.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Time is relational at six pm. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Time is relational at all. Exactly, right? Time is not transactional at all. Here, I think time is transactional, and you have to thank people for their time. With us, is you gather when you gather, it gets done when it gets done, you know. Um, one thing we can learn, um, I think from Ghana, and this speaks to the work I do as well, which I believe we'll touch on down the road. But one thing I've learned, Ghana is probably the size of, I would say like Oregon, about 32 million people in the small country. Um, about 15 major languages spoken, 47 subdialects. So you have multiple languages that are spoken, and we are very culturally diverse. So one tribe is completely different in their being from another culture, another tribe culturally, but somehow we've learned to live together. And, you know, there's a bit of tribalism that you would find because of human nature, but we've learned to live together. I people tell me all the time how sometimes I will go in between the four languages that I speak. You know, I can start speaking qi and then go into English and then go into Gan and then go to Evet, but there is this fluidity that comes with culture and you can kind of embrace that. And I wish we had that here. You know, um, I tell people I never described myself as a black person until I came into this country. And it was when I got here that I realized I constantly have to either describe myself as a black woman or as an African American, where we come from, from the president on down is black, you know. So I remember when uh President Obama first became president and everyone was getting excited. I thought, well, I've grown up with black presidents. I mean, why is why should this be a big deal? This should be the norm. Um, but unfortunately, it's not, as we all know. But anyway, I wish that we would go beyond the colors and the race and truly just flow in between cultures. I think there's beauty in that. And Africa teaches that, because Africa is more diverse than people think, you know, all the different as a continent with 54 different countries, and then within those countries, yeah, all these subcultures, I think truly uh is something we can learn from as a nation.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

And how have you uh applied some of that, those value systems to the work that you are doing? And maybe you can even talk about uh uh the dinners that you do uh each month. I thought that that was uh powerful.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah, absolutely. So let me tell you all a little bit about a nonprofit. Um, like you said in your introduction, we're culture encounters, and we consider ourselves as a nonprofit that bridges culture gaps here in Richmond with hopes of spreading into different regions as we grow. Um, but the way we do bridge building is bringing people together in fun, non-intimidating ways. And Eric, I think you had said that in the beginning about, you know, sometimes when you're in a room and there's a difficult conversation, there is some kind of pushback where people sometimes would just hear and not truly listen to what's being said or what is what is unspoken in the room. And so the way we've approached this work of bridge building is to bring people together in ways that are non-intimidating, fun, but the work is still being done. And we do that under three big umbrellas. Um, the first is through food, and so everything we do has an element of food. We will bring food to a workshop, we will bring food to a panel discussion, you know. So food is always the tool that we use, diverse food, food from different cultures. And then we go into the arts. Um, our roots were actually as we started this organization, I founded it as an arts program for kids. And so we kind of stay around that a little more. So we are behind the Richmond International Dance Festival. And this is the third year of hosting that festival. We bring people from different countries this year. We have 18 different cultures being represented where locals can come in and take dance classes from these groups, but also have shows. There's a language tent where you can learn language from around the world. But it's such a fun way of engaging people. Um, the third umbrella under which we work is also conversation. So we do a bit of training, uh, cultural sensitivity, intercultural competency type work. And then we also have these panel discussions. And then we also have a really small podcast uh where more long-form conversation kind of gets into that bucket as well. Um, but let me tell you a little bit about food since Eric, you went to that. Um, we have a program called Eat Talk Connect. And Eat Talk Connect is a monthly dinner, it happens the last Thursday of each month. So if you happen to be in Richmond, except the Thanksgiving Thursday, please do come. It's the last Thursday of each month. And what we do at dinner is uh before we eat, we have circle time. We call it circle and sips because we're adults, and so we have circle and sips. And in circle and sips, we do have difficult conversations. Um, we've had one uh in the past about discomfort engaging with people from different cultures. Sometimes people, and it's not the idea that they don't want to engage with immigrants like myself. People worry about am I going to understand their accent? Am I going to do something that offends them? Right. And that fear of discomfort then holds them back. So over steps, we will have conversations about that. What is that fear that stops you? Or what is the narrative that is spinning around around immigrants and immigrant groups within our communities? So we will have those conversations. Conversations. This Thursday's dinner was a soul food dinner. And so we talked about the African-American experience. We talked about even the little things about women, African-American women, telling our white sisters not to touch our hair. You know, don't touch my hair. And why that is significant. Why is that conversation happening? Anyway, but it is amazing what happens in those conversations. And then from there we go to dinner, where the chef usually either is an immigrant or a person of color who is running this restaurant or a catering service. And so we eat the food, we'll talk about how, excuse me, food connects with the culture and how people are truly engaging with the food. We also pre-order, so we know it's allergy-free, it's all of that. We take care of everyone else. It's not as spicy for those who are afraid of a little pepper. Please eat pepper site, public service announcement. It's good for you. But anyway, uh we will have all these conversations, but it's a way, honestly, of truly bringing community together. And some of them comes from my homeland, right? What I have done growing up back home, we talk over food. You know, we sit like when I remember when we're kids, food will be on a big platter and we'll all sit on the on the floor and just eat together from this big pot, you know, and the older cousins will try to take big heaps, you know, and then the little cousins are like, save me some, save me some. Is the idea of sitting in a circle and having conversation with the elders back home? Now that translates into circle time here, is the idea of can we um dance, you know, dance for in my culture, we dance at funerals, we dance at naming ceremonies, dance is an integral part. So now I can bring that into the work I do. So I tell people the work I do is literally the life I've lived, um, and bringing that into our space. So anyway, long answer to your short question.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Oh, that was that was fantastic. I I wanted to recognize something. Yeah, we uh uh culture encounters, yeah. Right, and Eric and I, as yourself, we we deal in culture. For those who are watching the show, because I'm sharing, I notice this, you may or may not notice when we talk about food, we pinch our fingers together. Okay, right? Because in some cultures, right, with our hands. Yes, we do. It's just better, it tastes better if you eat with your fingers. It tastes better, it does. So you may and you may pinch uh pinch some uh uh rice, yes, and then you give it your meat, or there's a bread, oftentimes you you eat with one hand, yeah, right. Sometimes just your right hand, you don't eat with your left hand, it's always the right hand.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

We we don't do the right hand.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

I noticed those things, right? And it reminded me of just being culturally competent, which is a process, right? And part of the process of cultural competence is part of it is academic, what is what you read, right? And that only goes so far. Yeah, the other part the other part of it is what you experience, yes, right. So there's some nuances about cultures that are sometimes not written down, it's the unwritten long established culture, yes, and I've learned a lot from my dear friend, uh gentleman that I coach in Richmond, Virginia. His name is Laurice Gallimore. Uh he works for an organization in Richmond called Encircle.

SPEAKER_05 25:48

So I'm in Richmond. I know Encircle, yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

I work with them, been working with them for six or seven years. I'm in Richmond every three months.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Oh, let's do coffee when you're back in town.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

It's done. It's done. So I was just I was just waiting to get there. I was like, let's do it, put it together, fam. Yeah. So uh I enjoyed uh what you were sharing and unpacking again around food, uh around the conversation, etc. etc. Yeah, and then even the nuance of you know having this conversation and African American women in particular were having to explain maybe to uh non-African Americans or others uh the either sensitivity or the truth about hair, yeah, why it is not appropriate for you to touch my hair. And that and that's a very thin line because it can be there there's curiosity. Yes, one curiosity is I'm interested in your hair, and there's another one, another to physically reach out and just break boundaries, yeah, and touch someone's hair. Yeah, my nuance was when I was younger, uh people patting me on the head. Yeah, so that reminded me of my historical trauma of going through the door of no return and landing on the East Coast or the Caribbean, etc. And we as African Americans or colored folks or black, as a man, others would pat us on the head like we were boys and then call us boys. So this is I'm sensitive for someone grabbing my head, touching me, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, just like an African-American woman, they say, Don't don't touch my hair. Right. These are some of many cultural nuances. What are some of the topics today, uh, not only with your monthly meetings, but what are some of the the things that are surfacing today in this, I'm gonna say it, this crazy world that we're living in right now?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's the you feel the divide. So I was telling someone the other day that when I first got here uh in 2001, the summer, I noticed that most of the questions that were directed to me were were around curiosity, right? It wasn't in-depth, it was more, so how did you get here? I'm like, die, I got on a plane, you know. Oh, you have planes back there, you know. There was that bit of ignorance um that comes with that. But you can blame people for that. It's a lack of exposure, and I respect that, and I understand that. That was kind of the realm I found myself as an immigrant. Most of the conversation was around how did you get here, how it's life, your English is great. How do you, you know, come, how did you come about speaking English? I thought you were French, and I'm like, no, we're English, we're colonized by the British. And so there was that more of I would call like a basic curiosity about who I was. But right after 9-11, I noticed a shift, and it wasn't with everyone, so I'm not going to broad brush this, but there was a shift into all right, so you immigrants come here and you take our jobs and you do this, and you are harmful, and we need to be on the alert, especially if you were of the Islamic faith or, you know, so there was that narrative that started to spin. I have noticed that shift over the years of this is where we were, and now this is where we are. Now bring that back into 2026, and you hear that again in different forms. Now, the forms are, are you a documented immigrant? Are you legal? You know, like I was telling someone that I was going back home last October just to go see about some things that my mom had left behind. And so I said, Well, I'm just gone for 10 days, I'll be right back. And the woman leaned in and whispered in my ear and said, Are you sure you'd be able to come back? You know, are you worried about being led back in into the country? And I said, I'm a US citizen now. I have a US passport. I should be able to go and come as I please. But it was almost, and I know it came from a place of concern, but it was now as an immigrant, I'm being viewed under the lens of, am I here legally or am I not here legally? And I thought, okay, over the last 25 years or so, there's been this shift from, okay, we know you're here, right? Into now you may cause harm. And now are you breaking the law? And just because I'm from another country doesn't mean I'm breaking the law. And so if you ask me what I'm experiencing now as an immigrant, this is what I see and this is what I feel. And, you know, there is work to be done and there is education that needs to happen. I feel that even in the work I do as people come in close proximity with immigrants like myself, that there is a narrative change that would happen, be it over the dinners, over all the different programmings that we offer, is the idea that now that you've gotten to know me. For example, the two of you have spent about the last 30 minutes with me and you formed your opinions now about me and about other Ghanaians that you probably already know. I've seen in the comments someone saying she's sharp. Thank you. Ghanaians are sharp.

unknown 31:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Right? But it's this spin, there is this shift that happens when you bring people in close proximity with each other. And I think that is beautiful. And that is what brings change. And so, as long as we can create spaces like what you all are doing with your platform, what we all are doing, just to bring people together, to have conversation, to have dialogue, people from different ethnic backgrounds, we get to break these things. And so, to answer your question, in the days and times we live in, there is a big need for narrative change. And if not, things won't get better. Who knows what else comes from this?

SPEAKER_03 32:10

You know, right. Our community is weighing in. Said a couple of things, just highlighting what you've said, flow in between cultures, love this approach. The circle is the unit of transformation. Dan Joyner has uh weighed in with that. You want to say something additional about that? Because you uh you all use the circle. I find circles as powerful because already they feel unifying. Uh, talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah. So that circle actually happened by accident. Um, we did not start um doing circles. It started recently, honestly. So we had a panel discussion and we had a low turnout for that panel discussion. We're expecting about 50 people, but also the planning was off. So we ended up doing it on Good Friday when people were on spring break or traveling for Easter. And I thought, oh my goodness, we have to cancel this event. And I said, no, we're just gonna do it. Whoever shows up shows up. And so we had about 15 people show up. And in that moment, we had the place set up, more auditorium style where the uh, you know, speakers will be up front and people would sit. And we looked at each other, uh, my team and I, and I said, just move the chairs around and let's form a circle and let the panelists sit in the circle with the audience and let's have conversation. And that was the beginning of the change that happened because at this point, you've taken away the hierarchy of we're in the audience and we're listening to people. There is level ground now. We are in a circle, and a circle is a symbol of unity as well. So we are united in this space, we're united in this conversation. And so from that point on, I told my team, every time we do dinner, we're going to move the chairs from the tables, have a circle, have this conversation, and then just go back to our tables for dinner. Uh, but there is intentionality there. Um, most of our games um I grew up playing as a child was always in circles. You know, we would have these games where you would sing a song and you run behind the circle and you drop this little ball behind one person. And once a song ends and the person finds out this the ball is behind them, they get up and they run around you in circles. But I can think of so many games I played within my Ghanaian community where it was around a circle. And I think there is some significance to that. And that significance is that it levels the playing field, but then we are all seen, we are all at eye level with each other, and we can feel seen, heard, and valued. And that is the significance of a circle.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

I love that. And I want to follow up with uh Dan Jordan has also said business perspective versus common good perspective.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

And as I listen to you, uh, you know, every time people hear what we do, uh, they they hear about it oftentimes in terms of business and transformation within organizations. But actually, I know that Tommy and I, both of our uh personal value systems are around this work. And so as you think about the times that we're living in right now and the work that you do, uh what is it that uh for you uh is personally the driver? What is the why for you around uh this work and uh deciding to do this work in this country at this time?

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah. So, you know, a few, maybe a year ago, towards the end of last year, actually, I was feeling down. There was a moment where I was second guessing myself. Um, because there's also no other organization doing the work the way we do it here, and especially as an immigrant-led, there are variations of it. So I want to acknowledge that. But in the intentional way that we're doing it, we don't have really anyone else. And I feel like I'm literally walking the path and creating the path as I walk it. So that was a moment where I was really second guessing everything, second guessing myself, second guessing the finances of the organization, all of that. And I remember in that moment, I I am I'm Christian, I'm religious, I'm gonna say um what happened to me in that moment. But I am in that moment, and I believe God was telling me that a little over 400 years ago, people were brought from my country into this place as slaves, into the very town I'm living in as slaves. 400 years later, he's brought me here as a free woman to speak to the systems that exist here. That did it for me. For me, it's, you know, at that point, I said, God, this is all you. You do your work. I would just be your mouthpiece. Um, but I believe there is a significance that I am from Ghana. There is also, and maybe I'll tell you my story about how I ended up in Richmond. Um, but there's a whole thing around that as well. I literally got off the plane and came to Richmond, Virginia, because my father lived here. And prior to us, my brother and I coming, he lived in New York City and he kept saying, I don't want my kids to come to New York. He literally grabbed a map of the U.S., wanted to go south, but not deep south. And for whatever reason, Virginia caught his attention. He knew nobody, grabbed his two suitcases, got on a Greyhound bus, and came to Richmond, Virginia for whatever reason. He couldn't even explain that. But I can explain that now because now I see the big picture. I was brought here as a free woman from the same place. Uh, this came from 400 years ago, and I'm here to make a difference. So, yes, that speaks to my work um every day. And I make sure my team understands that I also naturally am welcoming more to you, Tommy. Like, my home is the place where people hang out. Like every holiday, I'm like, oh Lord, who else is coming? You know, unannounced, uninvited, people would show up. But my home is that. But I believe that is a natural gifting because that is what God wants me to do within my community. And so I bring that skill from home and just let people come together and and talk about these issues and these difficult issues.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

But one other thing, I'm gonna let Tommy jump in there. But see what you just described. There is no equal to that. In other words, whoever uh feels as though they oppose what you do, it is not of an equal caliber.

SPEAKER_05 38:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

What you're doing is eternal, what you're doing is God's work, what you're doing has a calling to it, what you're doing has power and love behind it. And those are the motivations behind what you're doing. There is no enemy, there's no weapon formed against you that shall prosper. Yes, um, the calling that has led you to the work that you are doing, and what we're experiencing right now is just your value system and that love. We're we don't have the food with it, uh, we don't have the sip with it, but we got you. And we got your infectious smile and laugh and power. And I'm just all I'm just excited to count myself uh doing the work that you're doing, you know. I'm inspired by your humanity and your humility and your love and your story and how you got there, you know. Sort of your feet were ordered by God in order to find the purpose that is needed in that place right now. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

And I received that as well. I think you're spot on. And and I'm curious, uh, from my experience with Virginia, Richmond, Virginia, and you hit it on the head from the door of no return to 400 plus years ago. About immigrants, oftentimes I believe here in the states, we believe that immigrant immigrants are outside of the states. That is, like by definition, if you will. When they go come from New York to Virginia, oh, they're immigrant. Yes, because there's some nuances about Richmond, Virginia, that is very deep. It is from the inception almost of this country. Can you talk a little bit about your not necessarily your perspective as an immigrant, but others who might be immigrants internally or externally to the state and don't see themselves as immigrants? They speak like, yeah, I'm I'm this, but no, you too are immigrants. You've experienced that dynamic when you talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah, it's interesting you say that because usually when we have our dinners, one of the things that we do over dinner is we have people introduce themselves and talk about where they're from. And so one of the things that we would say is, show by hands if you were born in another country. And lo and behold, some hands will go up. And I would say, show by hands if you were born in another state other than Virginia, and hands will go up. And I would say, show by hands if you were born in Virginia, but don't live in the part of Virginia you were born in, and hands will go up. And then I narrow it all the way down to Richmond and say, in the last 10 years, if you've moved from south side Richmond to West End Richmond, raise your hands and hands will go up. And I would say, Great, we're a bunch of immigrants. Awesome. Now we can have a conversation, right? And that's when you see the light bulbs go up. Because let's look at the basic definition of migration, it's movement from point A to point B. That's it. You know, so if you lived in the East End and now you live in the West End, you did migrate. And in each community, it feels different. The way of being, if you look at the basic definition of culture, is the way a group of people live and do work and do life and do religion and do all of that. It's the accepted norm of a group of people. And so if you come to the West End, the feel is different. If you go to the East End, the word the feel is different. And so when we bring people into a room, we center that. Because if we do, then there is common ground, and now we can have the whole conversation about others and not think that others are just those who literally had a passport or crossed the border or whatever. Other is whoever is new, a newcomer in your space. So I tend to like the phrase newcomer versus the idea of an immigrant, because if you're a newcomer, it there is no differentiation where you came from, like which part of wherever you're a newcomer to the space. That's it. So let's use the term newcomer. I think that's the phrase that we all need to start saying you are a newcomer too. Now, what does a newcomer need? Right. And so that informs the work we do. It also grounds it because it brings this understanding of who we all are and what we are able to accomplish. Together, if we truly see each other as newcomers into a space. Now, a newcomer then requires the locals to make them feel welcome, right? But then the newcomer also then needs to be open enough to be accepted by the locals. And so it's a two-way street, and we call it cultural bridge building, the work we do. And so if you are on a newsletter or social media, you would always see us use the term bridge builder. And newsletters always start with dear bridge builder. There is an intentionality there because either as a local or newcomer, we all have the work to do. It's not a work that depends solely on just the locals, but the newcomer also has to do some work in that space. But yes, let's start using the phrase newcomer. I think it makes things easier for all of us. Did I answer your question? I'm not sure if I answered that question. Did I answer your question that way? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

I love newcomers. I do too. And I heard a number of things just from those two words, newcomers, one word together. I did hear welcoming. So when you're a newcomer, it's come, you're welcome. And I heard that you know, if you are the newcomer, you have to be open uh to receiving uh what that newness is. There's some anxiety, some some sometimes some reservation. Yeah, I was also reminded, as you were sharing, of one of my neighbors. Um they've been a neighbor for about eight years, they had moved from another part of the city in our community is fairly newly built uh homes. So they moved from this other part of the city, and for eight years they always talk about their other community. Oh and they say, This is why I left, this is why I left. But and we're in a we're in a decent community, whatever that means, right? And I'm curious, I'm like, it with my professional habit, I'm looking like, oh, you're not really part of this community, right? Because everything that you say, everything that you do, and absolutely what you think separated. It's your community that you're in now, the whole community. But we had always been welcomers, newcomer, right? Our home is the second home built in the entire community. So we were always welcoming folks. These folks literally would not even wave when we were wave to them coming down the street. Hey, hey, Jim, right, they look crazy, and and and I kept going. I was always I'm cutting the grass, whatever. My wife left, so right. Like I'm done now. Yeah, Penny's like, I'm done waving and stop doing it. But I'm like, I need to welcome them because I did not know, and this is how I thought I did not know when I might need assistance, or they might need assistance, and it was based on the definition of neighbor, how it grew up. That they're my neighbor, they're only two houses down. It's a new community, we're all newcomers. So why don't we just gather? Right, embrace each other, but they were holding on to some old culture, and maybe there's some bias against you know, I want to say they're they're they're they don't look like us, right? Yeah, like this is interesting, you know, culture encounter. This is interesting. It's been a solar experiment on it for eight years now, and you've given me some tools that have to approach it.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we see that even, and I'll speak for my immigrant community, the Ghanaian community, and I see that here, you know. So you would have most people come in and would stay close to other immigrants. So, like in Richmond, the west end of Richmond has a heavy immigrant population. And the reason is that when we come, we find our people and we just hang out with our people, you know. So you will find people, especially like from Ghana, who would go to the Ghana churches, they would only eat from the Ghana grocery store, their kids who go to the same schools because they live in the same neighborhood, and they never get part of the, become a part of the community. There is a difference though between two words that comes to mind integration and assimilation. They're not the same, right? So, what tends to happen for immigrants when we come into places like this, especially in the West, is that the Western culture, the predominant culture, then almost imposes on the newcomer to assimilate, become more Americanized, you know, drop the T when you speak, you know, try to say water versus water, you know, it's all of that, because that becomes acceptable. The truth is that if we can get newcomers to integrate, where you're truly still part of who you are, but then you also understand that I live in this space which you know has its own nuances and that I can tap into that as well and together build this beautiful new me, then the work is done, right? So, for example, your neighbor understanding, okay, I no longer live in X-neighborhood. I now live here. But yes, I did live in X-neighborhood. I do have the memories and the desires and the excitements from there. But can I bring that into this new space and marry that and create this new me, this new neighbor that I want to become? I think that is the path that we all need to be on. And as newcomers, we need to understand that as well. But then the systems need to understand that when, for example, I left Ghana 25 years ago. When I go back to Ghana now, I don't feel quite at home anymore, right? Because I'm no longer part of that culture. That culture has evolved. Like there are all these new dance moves that the kids are dancing, I don't know it. And back in the day, I used to perform. So I thought, I should know this, right? But I don't. But then I also find myself in Richmond, Virginia, which is not quite home because my history is not here. So a lot of newcomers find ourselves in this weird in-between. And that is what your neighbors do. When you find yourself in this weird in-between, you tend to lean to what you were familiar with and not ready to accept what is new, you know. And I told my team, I wish we had funding to do some research into what happens to the newcomer brain when we come into places like this. But I would love one day, you know, to pay some more brilliant minds to do research on that, you know. Um, but there is a thing there.

SPEAKER_03 51:01

Right. I I like what uh Dan again has said. Thanks, Dan, for weighing in uh this morning. He said hospitality is connecting strangers to strangers, and uh was the rest of it. Oh, I got lost and enabling them to share their song. Right. I like that part because as I was thinking about that, I was thinking about uh sort of newcomers coming to this country and being required so much to try to assimilate.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

My question to you is how long does it take before a newcomer is uh comfortable enough to share their song? Because I know there's just so much that, so much richness that comes from Ghana. How long did it take you to be able to share that? Uh, not as an apology for it, but as a real uh value that we could also appreciate. Uh, how difficult is that for newcomers to be able to share their song?

SPEAKER_00 52:04

It is difficult. Um, and it's also based on the person and their confidence level. So you have people. I remember one day I was out um with a family member and I got a phone call, and it was from Ghana. And so I switched and started speaking my language. And the person leaned in and said, Speak English, we're in public. And I said, Why? Why can I not just speak my language? The person on the other line is speaking my language. Why do I have to speak English? It's because, you know, we find ourselves in places where if you were not confident in who you are, if you had your own inferiority complex, you would never, you would never um integrate. It would be the thing where you are forced unconsciously to become the majority. So it's a hard issue. It's more who you are as a person. I wouldn't say that I've always gotten it together. I also find myself in rooms like that where, you know, if I'm in public spaces, I'm like, I'm limiting my language because I don't want people to feel weird around me that I'm switching between languages. Um, but I don't know that I can answer in more definite terms as far as like when did that switch happen for me? I think more so recently because of the work I do. The work I do has almost forced me to be more vocal about who I am and be unashamed about being truly Ghanaian, but also a part of me now has become more Americanized. And not everyone gets to experience that. I wish I could say immigrants go through this like spectrum, you know. Some people just never. I've had people, I remember when I first came to this country, a family member said, never buy a house in America. If you want to build a house, build a house back home. This is not your home. Just live here when you're ready to retire, build home and go back home, right? But then you forget that the bulk, like bulk of the bulk of my adult life has been here. It makes sense to own a home here. And then when I'm ready to go, I'm ready to go. But who says I would ever go? I don't know, right? Um, so I wish I could tell you that people or newcomers eventually integrate and become part of this. Some people do and some people don't. And it's more, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

That for me, uh I uh because I have been in so many places where people have said, don't they have to speak English? And I've heard the anger and the energy that comes with those comments. Uh, when I'm among uh communities where people are uh moving from English to Spanish or uh whatever language they bring, I celebrate that. Yeah, so you need to know there's somebody here who's saying, Yes, be you, you got some other skills. I I'm even kind of jealous right now. Can I learn when you teach me? You know, because that you gotta know that there are some people here that will celebrate the fullness of skill set uh and cultural beauty that is reflected in your language and your ability to speak with an accent and speak across many languages, that's not less intelligent, that's more intelligent. And so that ought to be something that we celebrate. And you ought to know that there are a lot of people that do celebrate it because I certainly have heard all the hostility.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yeah, yeah. And if we can amplify that for the newcomers, right? If if there's a way to celebrate that, and I think that's kind of the work that you know, my team and I are trying um to, you know, the transformation that we're hoping to bring. Um, and and we we are also in school, so we do after school programs. And one of the things, like every now and then I get the privilege to be in a classroom with kids, middle schoolers. And one of the things I tell them is that when you hear someone with an accent, it means that their tongue has been trained to roll in different ways based on the multiple languages they speak. And so I tell them I would speak English through my ever or tree tongue because I speak those languages as well. And now when someone says something to me in a, I guess, nanosecond, my brain then takes what you said in English, translated in all the different languages. I have to translate it through, and then speak it back to you in English. And all that is happening in a split second. And so sometimes my tongue will go between that, right? And even the way we spoke English in Ghana was more nuanced, British, uh, and also mixed in with our own dialects. And so I would speak English sometimes, and my kids would try to correct and say, Oh, no, that's not how you say it. And I'm like, no, that's not how you say it in American English, but this is how we say it, it's the same word, you know. Um, but it's it's hard. One of the things I also want to mention, though, is that some immigrants, not all, um, but immigrants that at least I'm using the word immigrant again, switch that into newcomers. Um, but one of the things I notice is people um will struggle when the people ask about their accents, you know, like you have an accent, where are you from? I am telling you the number of people I've met who are put on the spot when we go straight for the accent. So I tell locals when you meet a newcomer, don't go straight for the accent. You know, just ask them where they're from. Why do you have to make the accent the obvious thing? Because some people are conscious about that. Based on, you know, Eric, like what you said about why don't they speak English and all of that. I think that informs the whole you have an accent where you're from. So when you meet a newcomer, just ask them where you're from. You don't have to lead with the accent, try something else. You know, let's get more creative with that.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Yeah, try something else. That's so interesting. Uh for myself, my my grandparents from Brooklyn, New York, and you know, institute that Brooklyn, New York accent into my my mother. My father and his side of the family were from uh Macon, Georgia. So very southern draw, very slow speaking, and didn't really finish all the words, right? There was a lot of just understanding I don't know what you just said right then, but it just fell off. So in times where uh I am um really having an engaging conversation with someone, sometimes it's just educationally engaging, sometimes it's through some energy, right? Whatever it is, I lean more toward my the Brooklyn side, Brooklyn, New York. So I remember growing up in high school, folks were like, Where are you from? I I say I say talk. T A L K, talk. Where here in Cincinnati, it's it's like it's talk. Right, and then my parents, I mean my father's side, it could be something else. I don't know what it is. It's a draw, right? Yeah, so we all have accents, and in this part of the country, like in many parts of the country, I believe that we human beings, we want to find comfort in finding our tribe, our community, our comfort. And so we unconsciously or sometimes consciously try to peg people in certain tribes. So if I hear an accent quote or a language that's different than mine, I can either separate you, we're different, or engage you. Yeah, I'm interested in curious. Because if I'm hearing a different tongue or dialect from you, if I'm culturally competent or I have cultural humility, I say, Well, you hear something different. Yeah, you are as I'm speaking, you're hearing something different as I am hearing something different from you. Yeah, is if we're speaking, yeah, yeah. A lot of the inference is non-verbal communication, right? Yeah, it's that might be a different show at a different time.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

It is for sure. You know, and real quick, just to add on to something you said. So one of the things I notice is people will refer to my accent, but the people who do tend to be the my African-American friends. It is not my white friends who do that. I will find that so when people see me, right? I guess the assumption is I'm African American until I open my mouth. And the people who tend to dwell on my accent are people who look just like me. And, you know, but I think it's the expectation of she's gonna speak and sound just like me. And now you look like me, but you don't sound like me, and I don't know what to make with you, you know. But it's interesting that that tends to happen, and I notice that more frequently um from our own people.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

Yeah, we just we just call it a short circuit, we get short circuited, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Right, right. Right. And sometimes we just are ignorantly trying to relate to the motherland. Where are you at, girl? All of that, all of that, all mixed up, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

So we have come to the end. You've blown us through this hour, just blue, boom. Man, we just blew by. Uh, and so I want to give you a chance to uh tell people how they might be able to reach out to you uh for uh the work that you do, culture encounters, and uh, and then uh I'll have Tommy uh close us out.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:54

Yeah, absolutely. First of all, I want to say thank you to both of you for creating the space for this conversation. It's been amazing. Love, love every minute of it. As you can tell, I'm passionate. I can go on for hours on this conversation. Um, but yeah, I I am willing and open to engage. And so definitely our website is a place to learn more about the work we do and understand how we do the work. Um, so it's cultureencounters.org. I think it's on the screen now. And if you're on social media, Facebook, Instagram, we are at Culture Encounters. Um, so definitely find us, follow. I'm on LinkedIn um under my name. I think there are two profiles on there, but just go with the one that looks like me. But Amagaddy um over uh on LinkedIn as well. On our website, there's a number on there if you want to call us or text. Um, we definitely would love to continue this conversation with anyone who is interested. We also want to be the platform. So if you have any questions about just engaging with newcomers, um, reach out and we will try our best to help you um with resources for that as well. But thank you both. This has been amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

Of the many things that we were able to take away, I would say one, uh beautiful spirit in my and I'm a gap, two, reframing our language. For example, the newcomers, let's reframe that. And then three, I believe having the bold courage to bridge gaps across difference, uh to ensure that we are a world of humans connected versus uh just siloed in individuals kind of trying to find their own way. There's nothing new under the sun. We just need to have a conversation, a dialogue. So we would like to thank you and our community for joining us again on another episode of Diversity Conversations.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

Take care. We love it just like that. Bye.